Kelly Higdon [00:00:00]:
In today's podcast, I'm joined with Dr. Corrie Goldberg, owner of Shore Therapy, located in Chicago. But she's a psychologist with that psypact meaning that she can work in up to like 48 states. I'm really looking forward to this discussion because we'll be talking about some things with neurodivergence taking your practice from solo to an expansion kind of place. And there is a lot to learn from Corrie's story. Welcome, Corrie. Thanks, Kelly.
Corrie [00:00:32]:
It's a pleasure to be here. I really appreciate the opportunity to chat with you today.
Kelly Higdon [00:00:35]:
Yeah, let's talk about, let's talk about where your practice is right now. What does your practice look like, who are you serving, how are you serving them? And then we can talk about how you got here.
Corrie [00:00:47]:
Okay, thank you. So my practice, my office as you said, is I'm just outside of of Chicago and I'm a solo practitioner. So I do one on one therapy with adults in my office or via telehealth. As you said, I'm a psypact provider. So I actually think right now there's around 43 states, but we'll get there. And I do individual therapy as a trauma therapist. I guess I should start there. First and foremost, I'm a trauma therapist.
Corrie [00:01:16]:
I work to address anxiety, stress, trauma, burnout, nervous system overwhelm. And primarily I work with neurodivergent adults and parents of neurodivergent kids. And sometimes there's a question of like, what is this neurodivergent word? What does it mean? And so I think of it in terms of people whose brains work in a way that is outside of like the standard factory issue model. Like people who are or identify as autistic, adhd, twice exceptional, who learned in a different way than our conventional school systems, tend to support who may have trauma or traumatic brain injuries or other things that impact their body and their nerves. The way they think, the way they communicate, move through the world, understand things in a way that is different than what ourselves currently censured as.
Kelly Higdon [00:02:15]:
Okay, I'm gonna mark this real quick. Is there a fan on or something in your office?
Corrie [00:02:21]:
I have a white noise.
Kelly Higdon [00:02:24]:
It's competing and so it's making you go in and out.
Corrie [00:02:27]:
I think I will do that. Be right back.
Kelly Higdon [00:02:29]:
Okay, cool.
Corrie [00:02:35]:
It's off now.
Kelly Higdon [00:02:36]:
Awesome. Let's see if that's better. I have a feeling that's what was competing with the sound and making kind of go in and out because it's like we don't know where to focus. Okay, so in Your practice, you do a lot of one to one kind of work. And then when you work with parents, do you work with them? If there's more than one parent, do you work with them together? What does that look like?
Corrie [00:02:59]:
Also, really great question. I don't. I work with a parent, one or the other. I work with members of the same family and I don't work with parents together. And my reasons for that are, are that every person is bringing their own experience, their own understanding, their own pace at which they learn and grow and evolve to work and try to force two people to do that in the same way. And at the same time, there can be holding back or affecting one another process that just limits that growth or shifts that growth. And so I prefer to work with a client and maybe find another therapist to work with the other parent or. And I'm sure we'll talk more about it in a bit.
Corrie [00:03:46]:
That's another driving force behind this course that I developed where it's for parent burnout for parents of neurodivergent kids that expose parents to a lot of the same foundational ideas and exercises that I do one on one in my office, but allows them to do it in their own own pace and come together and talk about those things, but they're not trying to shoehorn one another the way that they need to. Still kind of honoring people's process, honoring their.
Kelly Higdon [00:04:20]:
I love that. All right, so I think a lot of clinicians, like when they're starting their practice, they see these practices that are successful, specialized, have this focus, a way of working. But we created this podcast really to show how you got there. Because it doesn't always start off that way. I mean, when you started your practice, why did you go into private practice as a psychologist? There's so many ways you can go, but why this way? And then what, I mean, were you already niched into neurodivergence like from the get go or what did it kind of start? Like?
Corrie [00:04:59]:
It was sort of, I would say, an interesting evolution. I started volunteering and working with neurodivergent young adults as early as when I was in high school. It just. I've always been drawn to people and those were people that I had an opportunity to provide support to at that time. When I went into practice. I should go back and kind of say that getting a PhD is a rigorous process. And I did not necessarily have ease with that process. And so I took quite a while to get my master's degree.
Corrie [00:05:36]:
I actually completed two PhD programs along the way. And by the end of that I was experiencing quite a bit of burnout. I had had two of my three children by that time. I was trying to juggle a lot of things and at the expense of kind of that balance. And so I took time to step back from the field after I completed my PhD and focus on the parent parents. That really was the full scope of my. When I went to return to work I was trying to find ways to do it in a way that could still balance the needs that my family had, that I had. But to also be serving the work that I wanted, frankly that I needed.
Corrie [00:06:20]:
Financially it wasn't sustainable for me to continue to not be working. And I started out in community mental health. It was a fantastic experience at a wonderful community mental health agency with great support. Fantastic. I got to do community outreach, education, crisis intervention. I had a managing load and a lot of support but I couldn't afford to continue to work there. The compensation level is just something that wasn't sustainable for myself or my time. And I looked to work in private practice through a group practice because I didn't want the responsibility of running a business as a community to doing the clinical work.
Corrie [00:07:10]:
I've always felt more comfortable being like second in command and not the top dog with all the responsibility. And I trained, I went through interview processes, I started working practice and it really quickly became clear to me that it was not going to be a fit for that balance for the support I was looking for and the quality of care that was important to me deliver. So I had to create and my private practice is when I started to create leaning in more generalist trauma focused. I was already certified at that time specialized trauma approach. But as I began to develop longer term relationships with my clients I kept noticing this pattern that was aligned with neurodivergence with people who were deep thinkers asking big questions, thinking outside of the facts and running into friction with navigating society for themselves, their children in a way that was showing up like trauma in my office. And I started to increasingly appreciate the trauma of marginalization and of this particular marginalized community that many of the adults with didn't even have an or an identity connected to. And it's been amazing for me to watch the therapeutic shift and change and just awareness and society expand to recognize the importance of neurodivergent farming care for neurodivergent.
Kelly Higdon [00:08:50]:
Yeah. Would you. I'm curious your thoughts on how it's becoming more and more prevalent in media. Social media. People talk about it more. Some people are Very critical of its resurgence of saying, like, oh, it's an excuse, or, you know, what are your thoughts on? I don't want to say popularization, but like, the increase in awareness of it.
Corrie [00:09:16]:
You know, I think that our minds naturally try to figure out something new. And so as people are seeing more people be identified as neurodivergent or identify with those labels, they start to question, like, why is that? Is that true? Is that actual or is that culture? And I think that it's great for people to be curious. I think it's important to notice language around something that resonates for them that they didn't have language before and they made sense by just thinking. I'm not very good at this being a person thing. I think that that is a powerful, therapeutic entry point for any human who is trying to reconcile, struggled with or develop a positive identity. And so I'm excited that more people are talking about this. I mean, I think it's when you see a great movie, you want to talk to people about it. As people are learning more about their identity, finding that fits to know that I'm a nervous, aggravated person and I have life work in a different way.
Corrie [00:10:32]:
Not I'm a broken person who's just not very good at life.
Kelly Higdon [00:10:36]:
Right.
Corrie [00:10:37]:
They want to talk to about that.
Kelly Higdon [00:10:39]:
Yeah. I can say for me, it used to feel like brokenness. And then I have language around like, oh, this is, you know, this is why I think the way I do, the way I say things, the way I approach things is like, oh, I'm not broken. I'm just different than some of the people around me. And I just. My brain works differently and what I need is different.
Corrie [00:11:05]:
Well, and sometimes what you need is different people around you. True. Yeah. You know, neurodivergent is the term that is relative. I mean, all it is, I'm different than this neurotype. It doesn't mean that this is a less valid neurotype.
Kelly Higdon [00:11:25]:
Yes.
Corrie [00:11:26]:
And so if you're around a lot of people who like, vibe with the way that you think and the way that what you value and what have you, all of a sudden you're not so urgent anymore.
Kelly Higdon [00:11:37]:
Right.
Corrie [00:11:38]:
Have more ease. And that's kind of nice to know.
Kelly Higdon [00:11:41]:
Right. I think that that's what I appreciate about your work with parents and like, creating more of this, like, you're not alone. Right. Having parents understand that, like, what they're facing or dealing with, with parent burnout and neurodivergence is you kind of normalize it. So how did how did you go from okay, you're building this practice, right? And you are getting clear about who you love serving. But then why build a course? Like where does that come from?
Corrie [00:12:15]:
So I suppose I should go back and say that when I initially started even psychology I was really interested in working with children. And I mentioned that I completed two programs. One was in clinical psychology with sort of a child and adolescent specialization added. The other was in school psychology. I was really interested about children and the systems that affect them and the experiences that affect them. And of course the family system is such a powerful one. And I was doing a lot of work with kids and I think most people who work with kids realize at a certain point we have so much power in their environment and that trying to teach kids to impact their environment differently can be setting them up and that if impacting environment that that would lead to greater gains over time. And I personally, my belief is like we have to change the world.
Corrie [00:13:15]:
But the first easiest place to affect change for neur home their parents create their household. It's influenced by the family members. And so that's my parents and I work with amazing, incredible human beings. Parents who are really struggling and stuff because they want so much to do right by right to care for their kids, to support their kids, to protect their kids. And so many of them were suffering because they were being given advice that they were adhering to a lot of neurodiversity rule followers do the right thing but they were following a sense that really wasn't developed for them. I mean these empirically based interventions were empirically based on population. So it might work really great for individuals with a certain neurotype, children with a certain neurotype. But it wasn't rolling out the same in neurodivergent.
Corrie [00:14:18]:
So I wanted to work that in my office. I saw people heal and shift and change and kind of this being given permission to do things differently instead of trying to continue to make their child conform to a certain way of being that their parents were really struggling with. And then to feel like they were bad parents and pressure on them to make that happen and the expansion just recognizing that a lot of people are struggling, a lot of parents are having a very difficult supporting their kids needs into one that values aligned for them because their own nervous system is overwhelmed because they are deeply supported and sometimes given advice that just isn't the right fit for their family. This sort of like ableist ideas, this medical model informed idea that is being pushed upon parents and is. And so the court way to reach a broader range of people than I can one on one therapy and to empower parents to structure their life and their families in a way that makes sense for them, in a way that fits who they are, their capacities, their numbers of, of their demands, their resources. And.
Kelly Higdon [00:15:40]:
And does. Do you focus mainly on parents who are neurodivergent or parents who are parenting neurodivergent children?
Corrie [00:15:49]:
Well, as you may know, the heritability of neurodivergence is like really, really high. So I would say that I am often working with neurodivergent parents who may or may not identify as such. And I am primarily working with parents, neurodivergent kids and where they are, conversation is less important than what they're working on.
Kelly Higdon [00:16:21]:
I will do like a full disclosure on this podcast that I am a member of your course. And originally, like, when I decided to take it, my daughter has her own neurodivergence. It's very different than mine. And I was thinking more about, like, how to help her. But the reality was, is that I wasn't supported in my own parenting. Like, I wasn't recognizing, oh, I'm overstimulated, oh, I'm over touched, oh, like, I need to put earplugs in. You know, like, there's just like lots of things that I wasn't picking up on my cue youth to my nervous system of like, oh, we're getting dysregulated. And it was impacting, like, how I would respond or how I would parent.
Kelly Higdon [00:17:05]:
And I didn't like how I was showing up at all. And I think it's interesting, like, being a person who is a little bit newer to this exploration and what it means for me and what it looks like. I had not thought about it touching me as a parent. I had thought about it in the way I learned, the way I had my friendships. Maybe I was starting to see it in my primary partnership with my spouse. I hadn't quite ventured into what does this mean for me as a parent and what does that look like and why do I feel so awful that I'm getting so frustrated so easily? Like, this doesn't feel good. It's not my child's problem, my teenager's problem. There's something like, there's something that's not seen sinking up here.
Kelly Higdon [00:17:54]:
And so that's why I decided to go this route of like. And I think a lot of therapists discover I. We find this in business school. A lot of therapists come in and they're like, frustrated in Business. And then they discover, oh, I have adhd. Oh, I'm autistic. Oh, like, there, there comes a realization of like, oh, I'm not the problem. It's the way the system is set up.
Kelly Higdon [00:18:22]:
And I've been trying to fit in this way that doesn't align with my neurotype. It's really common. I see this a lot with therapists that have, like, built businesses according to, like, some normative, this is how you do it, and it doesn't work for everybody. And so once we start to embrace ourselves, we start to create and cultivate a practice that is actually more aligned with, with the way we work. Yeah, but I had not made, like, I had not made the connection to, oh, this impacts my parenting. I'm just, I was just thinking I was a bad parent.
Corrie [00:18:55]:
And like, how powerful is that to understand that? The same way that you can create a practice that supports you and honors you and the work you want to do, that you can do that in your home, that that can how your child comes to develop an identity, a sense of what it felt like to be in the home, to be held and to be supported, and that that can come in a way that they also see caring for yourself neurodivergent grew up to be neurodivergent adults. And if what they see, you know, my mom leveraged herself and like herself and gave everything, so I will be okay. Is that my future as a parent? Is that what I'm signing up for? And I think you do such a beautiful and powerful job of empowering therapists to have permission to think. What do I want my life to feel like in my business and outside of my business? And how do I keep taking steps to create that, to be able to do that to your home and your family am in. Think of how your child themselves and their permission to see themselves in the world. I mean, for me, it's rep, center, generation. And that's.
Kelly Higdon [00:20:16]:
Yeah, I think for any therapist listening to this, it is this beautiful application of, like, how you have the power to create. And if you're feeling frustrated and thinking something's wrong with me, I think the system wants us to believe something's wrong with ourselves so then we don't push back against the system. The system wants to keep the status quo. But if you're on this private practice building journey and you're feeling like there's something wrong with me, it might just be that what you're creating isn't aligning with you and that, like, there's support needed there or just the permission, like you said, to do it in a way that really works for you. And I love that. I. I just think it's hilarious. I didn't think about it applied to my parenting.
Kelly Higdon [00:21:04]:
Like, it just was not. It was a little box. You know, everything's in little boxes and organized and well. Right.
Corrie [00:21:10]:
I mean, in any, I think, marginalized or oppressed group, I think you spoke to it. Like distraction keeps people from affecting change. And for me, this is like a grassroots movement. If we can empower and heal and support parents to raise empowered, healthy, supported children, everyone have the energy to go out and just live in a way that is responded to differently and demand different in society.
Kelly Higdon [00:21:48]:
And I hope that those that are listening, who are listening to this can hear Corrie's passion. Like, that's, you know, we talk about being passionate about the work, and I don't believe in your work being your everything, but if you're gonna do it, enjoy it and have like, purpose behind it. And I think it's really beautiful how clear you have gotten and how out of that has emerged other ways to support parents outside of the therapy world and so be encouraged therapists who are listening that there is a way to create a business that serves you and your community really well. It's following that kind of golden thread of like, really understanding, like who you click with, who you love working with, and then from there things will evolve well.
Corrie [00:22:39]:
And I think from the perspective of neurodivergent, you know, following your passion, it dials you into flow. You know that old adage, do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. I work every day, but I love the work that I do. I'm so privileged to be able to learn things that I can apply to my work, to have a connection to people that brings healing and change to their life and trickles out to effect the people who are most important to them, the systems that are most important to them, the values that are most important to them, and to be in a position to create accessibility care that neurodivergent people haven't found in healthcare systems is something that I'm incredibly grateful.
Kelly Higdon [00:23:35]:
So if people want to learn more about your course, because there might be some neurodivergent people out there that could use this, where can they find out more about what you've created?
Corrie [00:23:46]:
Thank you for asking. They can go to my website, which is storetherapycenter.com and there links to the online course where they can learn about the course itself. If they're interested in learning more about their experience of parent burnout or their possible risk for parent burnout. There's also a parent burnout screening is on the website that they can take as a real quick screener but gives them a little sense of their experience and may help them feel a little less alone in their experience. There's lots of blog posts on there to gain more information about parent burnout, more about parent burnout experiences specifically for parents, kids. So that's a great place to just start learning.
Kelly Higdon [00:24:29]:
So for someone who is here, who is wanting to start their practice or they've just started, what is something you want them to know to take with them on this journey?
Corrie [00:24:42]:
Don't wait until you're certain about what you're doing. Give space to get started and to evolve. I think that's something that's incredibly beautiful about the work that we get to do in private practice. Steps to evolve and grow and then give yourself time and the support to learn more about what it is that you want to learn more about. So don't wait till leave, but then take.
Kelly Higdon [00:25:10]:
I love that. Thank you for being here, Corrie.
Corrie [00:25:13]:
Thank you, Kelly.
Kelly Higdon [00:25:14]:
I love getting to share you with people.
Corrie [00:25:17]:
I appreciate that very.
Kelly Higdon [00:25:18]:
Yeah. And I appreciate the work you do and how it's helped me, other parents and other therapists out there. We're here to create what works for us. I think that that's the ultimate revolution. The way that we fight systemic oppression is to create. And I appreciate your creation and what you're doing.
Corrie [00:25:44]:
Thank you.
Kelly Higdon [00:25:47]:
All right, we'll see you all next time. We'll put details in the show notes. We'd love to hear from you. How are you creating something that is uniquely yours and like standing out so that you don't have to feel distraught, like there's something wrong with you. Right. Like, what are you going to create that is uniquely yours? That's like fits you like a glove. We'd love to hear from you. And until next time, bye.
Kelly Higdon [00:26:12]:
Bye.
